Templar vs. Merc

[slavenr1]

Hello everyone

I´d like to know some pros and conts of those class compared each other. Does the Templar tank much better than Merc and does Merc´s DD much better than Templar?
Which one would be better for DP´s. I know that Templar tanks better but don´t know if the Templar can generate enough aggro to hold mobs. I guess the Merc is better to keep aggro.
That is just my guess but would appreciate the help from someone who knows that.

Thanks in advance

Greets

[dgosjgois]

Templars have better stats and can tank better, but I think mercs still DD better. You don't hear much about either class anymore.

[yoyobuae]

Templar: Tons of maxHP, great defense (ie. blockdef), excellent threat generation (shield skills+phys/soul breakers).

Merc: Great ranged CC skills (DivineFlash, JudgmentBuster), debuff skills (Deathblow, OffBreaker), threat toggle.

In summary, templar is a better at taking hits, mercenary uses CC/debuffs to keep incoming damage down. In terms of threat generation they both should be pretty close, mercenary might have a bit of a lead now by spamming Deathblow (high threat) and using the threat toggle.

For bosses though, templar is definitely better. Mercs CC skills are of no use against bosses, only the debuffs still work on boss. Templar has much higher maxHP (easier to deal with heavy DoTs or crits) and has plenty of defense to keep incoming damage manageable. Templar also has spell intercept which can nearly neutralize some of the more problematic skills some bosses have. Templars still need to get enough Pacc to land hits, otherwise they may lose aggro half-way thru boss kill (Mercs have +60 Pacc for-free from passive MC skill).

[slavenr1]

Thanks

I guess I´ll go for Merc first

[deadlydick]

i like my merc
but i would say a temp tanks better

more patk more hp chance to block perfectly and also damage reduction skills

however here is a video of me tanking the final boss so far
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrwcC5RyXMw

[perkalethesin]

Well, above post shows how a great Merc tanks the butkadah. Here is a video about Templar tanking the same thing if you are interested to compare. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/lzdq_nQcWpA

-Alfa from Naga

[deadlydick]

Well, above post shows how a great Merc tanks the butkadah. Here is a video about Templar tanking the same thing if you are interested to compare. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/lzdq_nQcWpA

-Alfa from Naga

i swear i thought perkele and alfa was different ppl
did alfa by chance quit? he was a cool cat

[perkalethesin]

Well, above post shows how a great Merc tanks the butkadah. Here is a video about Templar tanking the same thing if you are interested to compare. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/lzdq_nQcWpA

-Alfa from Naga

i swear i thought perkele and alfa was different ppl
did alfa by chance quit? he was a cool cat

Oh, Perkale (161 DE) and AlfaMale (160 Templar) are both my chars. Not even sure if I ever had anything to do with you on Perkale, but at least on alfa we used to duel many times

And no, I never quit. I took a bit of break from alfa tho, to play with Perkale. Nowadays I pretty much play with them both in turns, or whatever is needed for the dp.

Anyway thats enough about me. cya in game.

[pillsagain]

Well, above post shows how a great Merc tanks the butkadah. Here is a video about Templar tanking the same thing if you are interested to compare. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/lzdq_nQcWpA

-Alfa from Naga

just curious, is there any reason to have over 100% block rate, does it increase perfect block rate?

[kriescher]

Well, above post shows how a great Merc tanks the butkadah. Here is a video about Templar tanking the same thing if you are interested to compare. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/lzdq_nQcWpA

-Alfa from Naga

just curious, is there any reason to have over 100% block rate, does it increase perfect block rate?

no, it just sort of happens when you pimp your shield to +20, +20 d2 mc shield has like 75%ish blockrate + templar passives, + gnoll unity + active guard etc pp

[ihealyourbooboo]

Well, above post shows how a great Merc tanks the butkadah. Here is a video about Templar tanking the same thing if you are interested to compare. Enjoy

http://youtu.be/lzdq_nQcWpA

-Alfa from Naga

just curious, is there any reason to have over 100% block rate, does it increase perfect block rate?

no, it just sort of happens when you pimp your shield to +20, +20 d2 mc shield has like 75%ish blockrate + templar passives, + gnoll unity + active guard etc pp

MC d2 +20 is 98% block rate

[bahluni]

Came across this old thread and decided to revive it. Tanking in cube wise templars generate less aggro than a 3/2/0 merc. Templars accuracy is also far lower. When melee tanking, templars take far less damage in cube due to block perfects and have some damage reduction skills. They are much more suited to handle multiple mobs than mercs. I had around 10k pdef on mine and it still felt like paper when melee tanking chained mobs in the higher cube rooms. Mercs take ok damage when a mob is deathblowed, but with chained ones they have to rely on cc's. Luckily they have a cool blind and some stuns.

Apart from that there is a huge difference when it comes to range tanking. Templars are very ill suited for this while mercs generate enough threat with threat toggle, restrain and death blow to do so. Pulling mobs will go a lot faster when a merc tanks like this and a lot less healing is needed when you compare a range merc with a melee templar. A melee templar however does more danage than a ranged merc. Range tanking is also very melee unfriendly since you pull with a -85% move debuff. Doesn't make a lot of difference on bosses since they crawl anyway, but you can kill mobs before non rangeds have a chance to attack without pulling adds.

[kriescher]

The Benefit of a templar for single mobs, even in a ranged dp, is the skill "Shield Charge" and the passive "Advanced Shield Charge", that reduces the ct of the skill to 4 seconds , with that Iin mind, look at the following situation:

Ranged dds at far corner of the room, Mobs in the opposite corner.
Mob gets chipped, and starts moving to the chipper
DD's start dealing dmg, mob still out of range
Mob gets into attacking range (HP halve down), Templar shield charges the mob
Mob gets stuned from the skill (5 sec duration), templar starts spamming skills

Situation A Mob died during the Stunlock
Situation B Mob still has HP left after the stun, but the Templar should have made enough threat through his skills to receive the following 1 to 2 hits before the mob dies. Or he follows the stun with another stun or restrain.

Repeat this untill the room is cleared.

Merc need 2 TP's in the 3rd tree to get the same ct-reduction for Divine Crash 40sec to 8 seconds.
Still a significant longer cooltime then the Templars 4 seconds, and no stun effect after the skill. That means the Merc needs to make enough threat right after the DC to keep the aggro of the mob.

This makes it definitely harder for the Merc to tank in cube than for a Templar, at least in my opinion.

With the method here described, its possible to clear a whole room without anyone getting a single hit, if the Kill speed is high enough ( 6-10 seconds per mob) if the ks is faster, you don't need a tank

[bahluni]

Very cool tactic and a 5 second stun should be more than enough, but you over value shield charge a bit. Unless they changed the skill more than just removing the knockback it should be something like a 5s hold coupled with a 1,5s stun. Both of those up with higher skill cards. Possibly i'm biased by the templars i dped with, but i'm reasonably sure they couldn't grab aggro if they attacked that late on every single mob in a cube room with the ks mentioned. That's why i wonder if templars using this tactic are in fact tanking or merely ccing mobs so they don't go for whatever DD generates the highest threat.

It's a small difference and i can imagine you'll need fewer heals and this tactic better succeeding if the templar is simply ccing without trying to have aggro on him. That he only grabs aggro when chained mobs are pulled. If that is the case it would mean this would lead to a lot of DD's getting hit if the ks isn't high enough or if a single stun fails or misses. It hugely relies on mob placement in a room and using this isn't always possible. For example the mobs are portal camping or to close to start with, linked to others or impossible to charge before they reach the DDs without pulling adds. But then again this is just hypothetical assuming that the templar does not have aggro on him.

If you used a merc in a similar way it would indeed not go as well. They would need far more healing since they should be tanking the mobs with less means to CC with that ks. Assuming a similar templar isn't grabbign aggro where a merc is, it would mean less issues if the ks is slower or if chains are pulled. Getting an ok + card on divine crash would reduce the cd considerably, but that wouldn't really tip the balance.

I think this tactic would work well on templars and would require less heals under ideal circomstances and fast ks. Curious how this would be with lower KS. For mercs i don't see the benefit of picking this over a bow with a 3/2/0 build which would work best with a slower ks. Unless they aren't tanking, but simply DDing. Apart from that a bow using merc would do far better on the main boss.

[kriescher]

There's no holding effect of the skill, but its definitely also not a 5 sec stun (5.8 sec with my +4 card) like it said it would be in the skill description. But thats hardly a surprise, false skill describtion in Rappelz, no way.

I recommend watching my Templar-Playthrough. I used that tactic, most of the time and if the mob was not cc-ed it hit 95% of the time my Templar.

Sadly people tend to stop thinking when I play on my Templar for the dp - example at 13 min when I went after the add and everyone followed my target and noone bothered to finish the mob we all started with -.-. Or they pull different mobs, even so some where still hitting on me - Excuses: Sry didn't see that one; Miss Tabed (but had to attack right away). Making it near impossible to tank different non chained mobs all at once

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaiOyo4bgfE